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Forums IJCA Forums
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IJCA Forums
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| Author |
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Ken Wickman
Posts:3
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| 11/05/2007 7:39 PM |
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Fixed Fittings and Equipment To Be Carried When Racing
Current reading of rule 3.8.8 One outboard engine with a minimum weight of 14kg, which when not in use shall be securely
stowed under one of the main berths or aft of the sill of the companionway.
Propose changing the weight from 14kg to 12kg. Revised rule would read as follows.
3.8.8 One outboard engine with a minimum weight of 12kg, which when not in use shall be securely
stowed under one of the main berths or aft of the sill of the companionway.
Reason: After searching for a 4 stroke engine amongst all manufacturers that comes most closely to the minimum weight of 14kg, the closest one is the Honda 2HP 4 stroke engine at 12.7kg. The next closest 4 strokes are Nissan 18.4kg, Yamaha 22kg, Suzuki 25kg. The proposed change would allow people to keep their current 2 stroke engines and upgrade over time still keeping all at or near the minimum weight but would also encourage people to move to a 4 stroke sooner with a natural incentive. |
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George Perantinos
Posts:2
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| 11/06/2007 2:17 AM |
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Ken, after some googling for Tohatsu and Nissan outboard specs, I noticed that the 2HP 4stroke models come ONLY in shortshaft versions. The standard motor mount I've seen in most J24s definitely needs a longshaft outboard, currently available only for the 4HP versions.
Additionally, from my own experiences with a 3.5HP 2-stroke Tohatsu, I'm not sure if 2HP would be enough to drive a J24 in every condition (e.g. swell/chop + strong wind).
IMHO, concerning rule 3.8.8, I would like to see the weight restriction lifted in the future, and impose a restriction only on min HP and perhaps min shaft length, because outboard manufacturers are constantly trying to make their outboards lighter and more efficient. After all, there's the 1345Kg all-up weight restriction, so that if you get a lighter outboard, you should have to increase the weight for the rest of your inventory.
Cheers, George
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Ken Wickman
Posts:3
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| 11/06/2007 12:19 PM |
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| The Honda is the only 2HP 4 stroke which is available in the long shaft. The other manufacturer weights for 4 stroke engines I referenced are the 3.5 HP and 4HP models as they were the only ones available in a long shaft version. My criteria was 4 stroke, long shaft, smallest HP available from each manufacturer. Then I prioritized based on the weights which came closest to the class minimum above or below. End result is recommendation to move the class minimum to 12kg which accomodates all existing 2 stroke models to keep cost low, and allows people to move up to a 4 stroke long shaft model from any manufacturer they choose. Lowering the minimum weight will also incentivize people to move to 4 stroke sooner if they feel the 2HP Honda meets their need from a power standpoint. |
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Lorne Chapman
Posts:158
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| 11/06/2007 3:30 PM |
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I try to scan the forums regularly but missed this discussion.
Could I ask you to send the details on the engines that you've researched to me by email and we'll have the Int. Technical Committee took at the issue.
There are two other aspects to this:
Hans Spiller in Seattle initiated some investigating of electric outboards for J/24s
There is an initiative underway in the ITC to compile all of the safety/capsize avoidance/flotation etc. information in one place. One issue there is the HP required to drive a J/24 in high winds and big seas.
It's all worth a new look - hasn't been done in a while.
Lorne Chapman
Chairman, Int. Technical Committee
lornec@mac.com |
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Ken Wickman
Posts:3
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| 11/06/2007 4:46 PM |
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| Lorne, I emailed you the details, let me know if you don't recieve it. Thanks |
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Stuart Jardine
Posts:54
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| 11/08/2007 1:31 PM |
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We may have to be thinking harder in Europe about outboards, I heard very recently that the EU was banning the import of all 2 stroke Outboards from 2008, if this is true we will only be able to get hold of 2nd hand 2 strokes or go for a four stroke.
It will take at least a year to get a rule through to reduce the weight if the 4 stroke 2 HP Honda can do the job. However in the meantime it is probably with the rules to increase the weight by permanently fitting 1.3 kgs of lead to bring this engine up to weight whilst we wait for a rule change. |
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Nils Jannichsen
Posts:65
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| 11/14/2007 4:04 PM |
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I agree on this, adding lead or something else to meet the rule would be the solution for people with a engine being to light.
[quote]Posted By Stuart Jardine on 11/08/2007 1:31 PM
We may have to be thinking harder in Europe about outboards, I heard very recently that the EU was banning the import of all 2 stroke Outboards from 2008, if this is true we will only be able to get hold of 2nd hand 2 strokes or go for a four stroke.
It will take at least a year to get a rule through to reduce the weight if the 4 stroke 2 HP Honda can do the job. However in the meantime it is probably with the rules to increase the weight by permanently fitting 1.3 kgs of lead to bring this engine up to weight whilst we wait for a rule change.[/quote]
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Doug Hosford
Posts:34
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| 12/07/2007 10:40 PM |
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I would support reduction or elimination of motor minimum weight and restoring the previous rule's concept of minimum performance. The motor minimum weight rule does not serve any safety or racing equality purpose. As part of the required and optional equipment minimum weight, a lighter motor requires more of other equipment to make weight. Because the motor is stowed almost ideally at the boats pitching moment center, a lighter motor does give any racing advantage (except reduced chance of racing with a back injury) .
A minimum horsepower or thrust requirement (per the previous version of the rule) does have some safety value though the previous rule's 3.5 hp minimum appears to have been unnecessarily high. The 2 hp Hondas commonly in use appear to be adequate. If electrics are allowed in the future, a minimum thrust requirement may be needed. |
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Bryan Wutzke
Posts:30
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| 12/08/2008 11:19 PM |
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Hi,
Can someone help clarify Rule 3.8.8, the minimum outboard weight shall be 14 kg?
Does the weight requirement apply to a "dry" or "wet" outboard (i.e. with/without fuel and oil)?
Thanks in advance,
Bryan Wutzke
#3801 "Maybe"
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Lorne Chapman
Posts:158
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| 12/09/2008 5:06 PM |
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| The weight for the motor would be taken as dry - i.e. with the integral tank empty. Emptying the fuel into a bucket while a bit of a pain really isn't a big deal as this is a once in a lifetime weighing.
Interesting question re the 4 stroke engines concerning the oil. Needs some investigation. First inclinations are to weigh them with the oil in - providing the common motors that would be used on our boats are close to the same oil capacity. Emptying the oil would likely be a pain. Anyone with any experience doing this who can contribute? |
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Pete Ramsdale
Posts:17
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| 12/10/2008 8:01 AM |
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The rule and measurement form simply refer to an outboard motor min 14kg min. As this weight is simply there to calculate the all-up weight for racing, and ensure the engine is above a min weight, the weight of the engine as used is what matters. If integral fuel tank is used it should be at the minimum it would ever get to - empty is ideal. As 4 strokes will always contain the same amount of oil - simply weigh the engine with the oil in.
The inventory is for the owner to complete - he/she should be satisfied that the weight actually carried across the finish line is equal to or more than the weight declared by the owner on the inventory form.
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Art Ahrens
Posts:9
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| 12/23/2008 1:26 PM |
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I have to agree with Pete. specifying a minimum weight of the outboard does NOTHING with respect to fair sailing within the class. The class rules already specify where movable ballast can and cannot be stored below during racing. Thrust requirements are up to the individual skippers based upon where they expect to sail. Racing is already kept even by specifying an all up minimum racing weight. I respectfully request that the technical committee review the list, and determine where the priorities need to be placed with respect to the minimum equipment list. I also request to review the list to determine what could be removed, to perhaps lighten the load. Having to add 2 ounces of weight to my 3.5 hp tohatsu outboard makes absolutely no sense when the goal is to ensure that all boats meet the minimum all up weight. I would rather add those ounces to the battery for example then sling a heavy outboard over the side to get back to the dock.
Art Ahrens
USA 2843
Flying Pirates |
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